i-Ron
12:13 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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I can kind of see where Alex is coming from. There's nothing particular that stands out, like pace, dazzling footwork, headers etc.
He's a grafter, and has an uncanny knack of finding the net with both feet and his head, from inside and outside the area. Bit of an all rounder.
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Far Cough
11:56 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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29 goals in all competitions and it's hard to see what he does well?
I'd suggest a fucking visit to Specsavers for a start
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whufcroe
11:39 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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"it's not even abundantly clear that Harry Kane is some special talent - it's hard to put your finger on what he does well,"
Haha another Alex V classic
I can't stand the cunt but he's the top goalscorer in the Premier League FFS
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Alex V
2:35 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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I meant to ask "Are there simply more extraordinary German or Spanish kids at the same ages than English kids?"
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Alex V
2:22 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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Fifth Column 1:03 Tue Mar 31
What you seem to be saying is that they are 'extraordinary' in terms of what has happened to them, not necessarily what they are. A lottery winner could be said to be extraordinary in that way.
If you're saying they're extraordinary in terms of some physical or mental ability, then where is the real evidence of that? If the only evidence is the result, then you're almost assuming the cause in blind faith.
Are German or Spanish kids just more extraordinary at the same ages as English kids?
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alphaharps
2:20 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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just checked, not bad 3 in 6. Maybe next season the Championship, if he can do that. give him a go.
Kane had to do all this, work his way up through loan spells
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alphaharps
2:16 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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how is Lee doing for Luton?
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DJH
1:56 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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Too many of us are living in the past, football in this country has changed massively compared to 5 years ago let alone going back even further to our most recent golden era.
In years gone by top young talent was much more widely spread even in codensed areas like London whereas in recent years Arsenal, Chelsea and to some extent Spurs have been hoovering up nearly all of it leaving the rest of us with generally talented kids but not really having the obvious attributes for the Premier League.
Personally I think the standard of those top young players at those big clubs is higher than ever but sadly we now have a national competition where instant results are needed and like most industries where that is the case is not conducive to developing young talent within it.
Years ago most Managers were under less immediate pressure and could afford to take a longer term approach with their clubs whereas losing one game now could cost a club £m's so the majority cannot afford to look beyond the next few games, until that changes things are not going to get better unless the FA intervenes. In these circumstances Managers like BFS will simply pick the players they believe will get them results and not take unnecessary risks.
I have no doubt if Elliott Lee was good enough he would have been given opportunity by BFS but to me he is simply a classic example of talented kid who simply lacks the physical attributes or top quality for the modern game at the top level in his chosen position, like it or not Carlton Cole at 6ft 3in has at least one of them and no surprise that BFS favoured him over Lee.
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Ernest Faulkner
1:08 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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Kevin Nolan
Phil Jones
Two great examples of youngsters the gaffer has brought through.
He regularly plays six or seven English.
In Sam we trust.
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:^)
1:06 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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To be fair Taylor did a decent job, despite his obvious faults. It's not all about straight talent, which is why Ravel Morrison has never settled. The mentality of players is every bit as key in players development.
I'd have done things different to Allardyce and had more faith in a few like Elliot Lee and Rob Hall. Would have done everything I could to get Morrison right but there is always a choice to be made, and not just on youth either.
Frustrating seeing tried and failed players playing because of experience, and the rewards of unearthing a youth player to squad player can be better financially than for finishing a place or two higher in the league, but getting it right more often than not is what sees progress at the club, and there has been plenty under Allardyce's reign.
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Fifth Column
1:03 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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What's extraordinary about Harry Kane? Are you serious? I don't think he's the next Messiah. However, in comparison to 99% of people who sign for pro club academies at any point in their childhood he has earned a professional contract in the Premier League. That makes him and Ryan Mason and Tomkins and Collins and even CFC extraordinary as they are better than 99% of those who have been at Academies as children, not to mention the millions and millions of others of the same age who didn't get that far. Extraordinary doesn't mean being Messi, it means being better than a million other people your age to become a premier league player. The blockage is the money in the game that brings in foreign players that block development... And how scared our clubs are of relegation compared to other EU countries... That and the attitude of most grassroots coaches is almost always dire even now.
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Alex V
1:02 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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Ernest Faulkner 12:55 Tue Mar 31
Care to explain why?
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Ernest Faulkner
12:55 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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Jenkinson and Kouyate kind of blows this argument apart.
In Sam we trust.
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Hermit Road
12:51 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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If you haven't got youngsters better than Matt Taylor, then you should build flats on Little Heath.
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:^)
12:46 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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We had fuck all come through the ranks under Billy Bonds either, I wouldn't blame him too. I think we had a few appearences from Simon Livett and Matthew Rush.
If the players aren't clearly better than the first choice it's just a case of weakening your team to blood players. So I'd trust the clubs opinion over a pissed up hack that probably knows fuck all about any of our youth.
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Alex V
12:44 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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Fifth Column 12:06 Tue Mar 31
What's extraordinary about Ryan Mason? As Sir Alf indicated, it's not even abundantly clear that Harry Kane is some special talent - it's hard to put your finger on what he does well, and there was a lot of resistance to him playing at Spurs. You seem to be suggesting that your stunning youngster didn't have some element of magic that you think others have to possess to make the step up - I just have to doubt it, because I've seen no evidence of it.
Whatever way we look at it, the route from being a talented youth to the prem seems to be almost completely blocked. I just don't seem to see that same blockage in almost any other domestic league that I watch. Either you accept that there's some genetic defect in English nationals, or something is going wrong somewhere with player development.
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Vexed
12:14 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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Hermit Road 12:07 Tue Mar 31
Nah
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Hermit Road
12:08 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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Fifth, conversely, there are players who make it but don't look as good at a younger age as others who don't make it. I think there's a lot to do with mentality rather than ability.
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Hermit Road
12:07 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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Rooney is a better player than Linekar.
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Fifth Column
12:06 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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Alex V
As I said clearly in my post, you have to be extraordinary to play in the Premier League in comparison to 99.9999% of the population. I don't mean a world beater. Burnley's subs bench will all be amazing players in comparison to the vast majority of kids currently at Acadamies as they have made it to the Premier League with a full contract with a premier league club. That kid I was talking about was a stunning player in Sunday league, was the best player in the Villa academy and trained with the first team... But he couldn't make the first team. It's an enormous, massive jump from 21s to Premier League football. If you make it you are extraordinary,,, even if by the standards of Chelsea or Real Madrid you are shit.
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Fifth Column
12:00 Tue Mar 31
Re: Rob Shepherd has it right...
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Yes Stewie, DJ... Lovely kid. Was released by Charlton and Millwall in his teens.
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